Posted by ( Chris ) on June 12, 2008 at 7:46 am

Robert,

I knew you would dismiss the message based on the messenger. Nevertheless, You have yet to address the content of the factual evidence that intelligence was manipulated. There is no denying the mountain of evidence which shows that the Bush administration cherry picked intelligence, presented it to Congress and the American people, and then got a resolution to use force. It’s that simple. You may want to dismiss McClellan with the same old talking points spewed each and everyday from those who only two years ago loved the man. It still doesn’t account for the indications of Colin Powell who now admits intelligence was inflated, or John Snow who was a cabinet member and indicates that the intelligence was fixed around the policy. Robert, there is just way too much evidence out there starting with David Kay, the 9-11 commission, the Iraq Study Group, CIA reports, and ending with McCellan which negates you argument here. Was Colin Powell and John Snow just trying to make a buck? That is a rather illitimate argument given that there is too many peoople who were involved in this who are saying the same thing. It’s rather Nixonian or at least Rovian to try to dismiss this information through a campaign of personal destruction. If that’s your only defense as well as the White House then you got nothin’, because you have yet to present anything but personal opinion to support your argument.

As for health care, I gave you what you wanted concerning Obama’s plan.  What is amazing is that you wrote: “the majority of Americans who have no problem affording their own health care.” I would like to know from where you got that information? Perhaps you were unaware of this but premiums are going up to the point where millions upon millions are now essentially working two weeks for their family coverage leaving the other two weeks of a monthly wage for living expenses. How in the world do you suport a statement that the majority of American have no problem affording healthcare? You would not have to lower care to allow everyone to have care sir. That’s an irresponsible statement that you have not supported. You are basing your argument on the horror stories you hear from Europe. What you fail to understand is that the majority of Americans who now have their own insurance will continue to have their own insurance which they pay for themselves. The only help they’ll get is a dang tax cut under Obama’s plan! The difference is that when you eliminate the 47 million Americans who go to the Emergency room for their care and replace that with coverage like Congress has you automatically have a cost reduction never before seen. You then have a health care system which focuses on prevention rather than treatment which will eliminate the number of sick people. The healthcare system you are talking about is not what Obama proposes. It is not mandated coverage for everyone. Private carriers will continue to provide the bulk of coverage. Its’ simple really. If you eliminate the load on our Emergency rooms and taxpayers who pay for those who have no insurance you actually free up time, space and money for our healthcare system to progress through R&D;. I can tell you one thing for certain. The status quo is working worth a dime, sir. If you want to continue with business as usual so be it. You are in the clear minority, thank God. Anyway, I always enjoy our political debates. I hope that one day you will see the light .

Posted by ( Chris ) on June 11, 2008 at 1:45 pm

Robert,

Here is what is truly pitiful. You seem unable to understand that the intelligence presented to the American People and the Congress was intelligence cherry picked by the administration to support the Iraq war. This is essentially now a fact sir. As recently as two weeks ago the former press secretary for the President of the United States indicated that the intelligence was fixed around the policy. Intelligence which did not support the policy was shelved and not presented to us or the Congress. Case in point, George Bush stood in front of all of us and lied about Iraq attempting to acuqire yellow cake from Nigeria. Dick Cheney lied about Mohmmad Atta meeting with Iraqi officials in Prague. David Kay reported that intelligence reports before the invasion showed that there was no WMD’s and they were destroyed between 1996 and 1998. Congressional investigations, Senate reports, CIA reports, along with former administration officials prove that alternative intelligence was shelved and hidden from Congress and the American People. John Snow (former treasury sec.) has indicated that intelligence was fixed around the policy. The Downing Street Memo from the British Govt. shows that intelligence was fixed around the policy. A recent Senate report concludes that intelligence was manipulated to sell the war to the public. The bottom line is that your assertion that everyone saw the same intelligence is flat out wrong. The result; well how about 4,000 DEAD AMERICAN KIDS IN A WAR BASED ON MANIPULATED INTELLIGENCDE AND LIES! I have given concrete examples to support my argument here. You on the other hand rely ont he same talking points we heard in 2005 given to us by FIXED NEWS and the idiot right wing talk radio jockey’s, which is “everyone seen the same intelligence.” That is a lie plain and simple. For once, I would love to see you support your arguments with anything other than talking points given to you by your right wing masters. Just once. For your reading pleasure :http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60minutes/main1527749.shtml
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/06/politics/06intel.html
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1812507,00.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/news/2003/intell-030709-rfel-151703.htm

As for Obama. All you have given is speculation based on the talking points we can all hear for ourselves if we tune in to FIXED NEWS or Hannity. I’ll help you though, because it is the Christian thing to do. Obama’s plan is not mandated coverage. If you want to keep your current coverage so be it. What you will get is a 1,000 to 2,500 dollar tax credit to help you with premiums. Others who don’t have jobs with coverage will have the OPTION to buy in to the same coverage members of Congress get. It will be subsidized but not free. Emphasis will be place on prevention which will save billions in effect paying for a portion of the plan. The Bush tax cuts for the top 1% will be rolled back to the levels of the 90’s which will pay for a portion of the plan. We are going to carefully withdraw from Iraq which will ultimately save over 740 MILLION DOLLARS PER DAY which will pay for a portion of the plan. Small Businesses will get fairly large tax cuts as incentive to cover more employees. That is just a few of the high points. Do yourself a favor and do some dern research for yourself and stop relying on other people to tell you what to think. Shammity, O’Lielly, and Oxylimbaugh don’t know everything and God knows you’ll only get one side from FIXED.

Posted by ( Chris ) on June 10, 2008 at 8:56 am

Robert,

You never cease to amaze me, that’s for sure. I am struggling to understand the bizarre logic you have put forth in you last post. You have yet to put forth a substantial argument to negate the common knowledge that George W. Bush led an effort to manipulate intelligence for war. Why is that o.k. with you?

I am unsure what your point is about past Presidents and specific wars. None of that justifies manipulatng intelligence to dupe the American people in to thinking Iraq was an imminent threat. But let’s examine your inability to digest history. First of all, it is fallacious to compare WWII to the Iraq debacle. Germany delcared war on America folloing the Pearl Harbor attrack and we returned the favor. Cynthia is correct in that German U-Boats and American naval forces had been engaging each other for some time befor Dec. 7th. Our entry in to WWII was inevitable. Your argument that we can justify the Iraq war because Germany never attacked us first just shows a fundamental lack of knowledge about the geo political history of that era. Truman didn’t “start” Korea. We entered that conflict under a U.N. Resolution after the north invaded the South. Your attempt to justify Iraq based on this war is rather silly. Next, Our first advisors were sent to Vietnam during the Eisenhower administration. To get a better understanding of our involvement in that war I suggest you read the Pentagon Papers. Nevertheless, your attempt to portray the Iraq war as justifiable because Vietnam never attacked us is another fallacious argument. Clinton did attack Bosnia. He told us why he would do so. The American people knew why that decision was made. No intelligence was manipulated to fool us in to believing something that wasn’t true. We did not lose one American soldier during that campaign.

George W. Bush and his minions manipulated intelligence to fit a policy. We were misled and that sir, IS A FACT. What is truly bizarre is how you attempt to justify lying to the American people for war by referring to incorrect historical events of the past. If you cannot see the difference in Germany never attacking us and Iraq never attacking us you simply just don’t want to see it.

BTW, why should anyone have to explain the Obama health care plan to you. If you are self sufficient then why can’t you simply read about it? It’s there for all to see. All you are doing is parroting the talking points you hear each day from your Republican right wing talking head masters on FIXED News and Westwood One Radio. Just for fun think about this though, we are spending over 700 MILLION per day in Iraq right now. Our budget deficit is a half of a trillion and our trade deficit is a half a trillion. Why, because we gave tax cuts to the wealthy while we decided to spend HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS IN IRAQ. Our dollar is almost worthless, the middle east is de-stabilized and oil speculators are bidding up the price of oil because of these things. Things, that your hero George W. Bush gave us. Entitlement programs such as Medicaid and Social Security are not bankrupting this nation, IRAQ IS!!!!!!! Pitiful, pitiful, pitiful Robert. As a combat veteran I take umbrage to the fact that you minimize the sacrifice of so many for lies. I hope you are proud of yourself.

Posted by ( Stephen in Greeneville ) on June 09, 2008 at 10:41 am

TO: Chris in Bristol & Diana in Rogersville,
I’m with you BOTH, time for folks to come into the 21st century, leave the Bush fear-mongering and war-mongering behind and begin a new era in America.
People fear what they do not understand, and hate that which they fear. The key to logical, objective thinking is UNDERSTANDING, the past seven years are a testament to what Hate and Fear will do to a nation.

Posted by ( a real patriot ) on June 08, 2008 at 11:22 pm

this nitwit wants the guv’s hand in everything. just where is all the funding coming from? surely it couldn’t be taxes…

want real change? put an ECONOMIST & DOCTOR in office. -someone who understands from the inside out.

Ron Paul

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=ron+paul&btnG=Search